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WarGames » Wargames - mass battle » Warhammer
Charge, clipping, sliding
Kronas
Heil.
Kiekvienoje bendruomenėje UK yra sutartos taisyklės dėl clippingo ir slidingo.
Pas mus iki šiol tai nebuvo aptarta (be 1 ar 2 turnyrų, kuriuose buvo pasakyta, kad vadovaujamasi GW errata tuo klausimu, bet jokių argumentų nepateikta). Gal jau pats laikas?..

Terminai:
1. Chargo maximizavimas - papildomas wheel manevras, tam, kad į Close Combatą įtraukti kuo didesnį skaičių modelių. Maximizavimas negali tapti failed charge priežastimi.
2. Clipping - Po charge'o, dėl move'o stokos susidariusi situacija, kuomet unitai liečiasi tik kampai ar 1-2 modeliais.
3. Sliding - Leidžiamas papildomas pristūmimas clipping situacijoje, tam kad maximalus modelių skaičius atsidurtų CC.

Aš manau, kad sliding'as yra neleistinas ir nenaudotinas, nes:
1. Tokiu būdu modeliai pajuda daugiau, nei leidžia Movement charakteristika.
2. Pranašumą gauna Hack'n'Slash armijos.
3. Atstumo spėjimas, kad įtraukti max modelių į CC irgi yra žaidimo dalis.

Idealiai mano nuomonę atitinkantis pavyzdys (deja, anglų k, tingėjau versti viską ):

A unit of Chosen Warriors of Khorne with extra hand weapons and frenzy are in single rank, 10 wide, formation. They have a chaos lord in the unit at the far end (diagrams to follow). They are 7 inches from a block of 20 clanrats/swordsmen/men-at-arms/whatever. They are perpendicular to each other at the start. If they were to simply charge ahead they would only contact 2 of their number against 3 of the foe, due to how they are lined up. The rules say that the charger can, and indeed must, wheel in order to maximize the number of models in combat from each side, but that this wheel cannot cause the charge to fail. In other words, even though you must try to get as many in contact as you can, if wheeling to bring 4 models in would make them fail where wheeling to bring 3 models in would make it, you only wheel far enough to bring in 3 models. Once contact is made, the charger is allowed an additional _wheel_ to line up the formations so the battleline is fully in contact. Fair enough! The non-chaos player positioned himself so that only a few supreme chaos troops can make it to his unit, allowing his banner and ranks to help him make up for poor combat ability.

The above is shown here:

XCXXXXXXXX
>
>
>

^^^^^^^TTTTT
^^^^^^^TTTTT
^^^^^^^TTTTT
^^^^^^^TTTTT

After charge with max wheel:

XCXXXXXXXX
^^^^^^TTTTT
^^^^^^TTTTT
^^^^^^TTTTT
^^^^^^TTTTT

X=Chaos Warrior
C=Chaos Lord
T=Generic poor-combat Trooper
^=spacer
>=direction of wheel
The Chaos Warriors have only 3 attackers, so the poor troops stand a chance to prevail. The player of these troops has used his distance estimating skills, understanding of the rules of charging, and good movement to give himself a shot.


If sliding to maximize is allowed, the formation looks like this:
XCXXXXXXXX
^^^^TTTTT^^
^^^^TTTTT^^
^^^^TTTTT^^

Suddenly, there are 6 chaos warriors in contact. This was done to give max models on each side, yes, but done so in a way that negates the superior play of the non-chaos player and steps outside the rules. Incidentally, the chaos warriors have not only received the (allowed within the rules) free neaten-up wheel, but they have also moved over another three inches or so, taking them from an 8 inch charge to something like 12 inches.
But wait, there’s more.

Since we are going to allow sliding, and the “spirit” being used to justify this is the idea of maximizing guys, rolling lots of dice, and having a jolly old time, why not simply slide the chaos warriors further like this:

XCXXXXXXX
^TTTTT
^TTTTT
^TTTTT

You still get 6 guys in contact, but now this includes the Lord. Any hope the better player had is gone. The chaos troops, by the way, have moved probably 14 or 15 inches at this point. Who needs horses!?


As a side note, if they idea is to allow sliding so that we get all sorts of Fun Big Death, why not give extra range and reward sloppy play for catapult shooters too? Let’s say the template lands so that it is touching only a few models in the target unit. Well, shucks, since the guess was good enough to at least touch the target unit, let’s just reposition the template to be square over the middle of the unit, hitting about 23 guys! So the new position is out of the catapult’s range, even after scatter, so what? It’s more fun this way, right? Cannons? The shot stopped on a model in the front rank? Shoot, let’s assume it went all the way through the unit! That’s more fun too, right?

If you kill one man you are murderer.
If you kill ten you are a monster.
If you kill a hundred you are a hero.
If you kill ten thousand you are a conqueror!
Boyar Aleksandr of Kislev
Imperial
Diduma jei ne wisi naudoja shias taisykles ,pas mus taipogi irgi diduma naudoja jas, nes jos yra erratoj (rulebook'o pataisymai) .
O del to kad gauna pranashuma , tai zek atwirkshciai gauna pranashuma shoot shoot armijos duh.
Beja kazka cia maishai tu su clipping ir sliding..



[center]King Undisputed! Respected! Saluted! And seen for the wonder I am! Yes, my teeth and ambitions are bared! Be Prepared! [/center]
Kronas
Imperial parašė:
Diduma jei ne wisi naudoja shias taisykles ,pas mus taipogi irgi diduma naudoja jas, nes jos yra erratoj (rulebook'o pataisymai) .

Errata parašė:
Please note that these are not rules, but rather helpful
suggestions we encourage you to use to resolve your games in a friendly manner.

Taigi tai nėra taisyklių pataisymas, o tik pasiūlymas. Taipogi:

Errata parašė:
In all these extreme situations, if you want to play
literally by the rules, you have to live with the clipping
and continue with the game.

Ir kiek skaitinėjau, tai tikrai ne visi naudoja sliding'ą. Dauguma netgi yra nusiteikę prieš tokią taisyklę, kuri sumažina manevravimo meistriškumo reikšmę žaidime.

Imperial parašė:
O del to kad gauna pranashuma , tai zek atwirkshciai gauna pranashuma shoot shoot armijos duh.

Prie ko čia išvis shooting'as šioje situacijoje?..
Daugiau argumentų, idant teiginiai skambėtų svariai

Imperial parašė:
Beja kazka cia maishai tu su clipping ir sliding..

Errata parašė:
The term 'clipping' refers to the situation when two units
end up engaged in combat and are not facing fully
against each other.

Errata parašė:
The best solution is normally
to slide sideways the chargers (or the unti that won the
fight), in order to bring more models in to the fight.
This is not technically allowed by the letter of the rules...

If you kill one man you are murderer.
If you kill ten you are a monster.
If you kill a hundred you are a hero.
If you kill ten thousand you are a conqueror!
Boyar Aleksandr of Kislev