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patvirtintu 5th ed. taisyklu keitimai.
uruk-hai posted 2008-06-12 05:25
Turbut dauguma jau zino, bet GW pradejo oficialiai isplatinti kai kurios naujus taisykles:

Line of sight
Warhammer 40K 5th edition uses true line of sight which means that if your models can see a target (and are in range) they can shoot at it.

Models in a shooters own unit do not block line of sight when shooting at a target, as they have been drilled to stey out of each others line of fire

If target models ar partially obscured by terrain they will get a cover save (the value of the save is determined by the type of cover)

If target models arge partially obscured by another unit friend of foe, the targe will get a 4+ cover save.

Running and Running with fleet units
In the shooting phase, units may choose to Run instead of shooting

If a unit chosses to run they can move up to D6' in any direction
Units that choose to run may however NOT launch an assault in the assault phase.

Running also allows units to disperse after deep striking, offering them protection from template weapons

Wound allocation
In 5th edition, wounds are allocated before armor saves are rolled and each model in a unit must suffer a wound before anyone suffers a second wound. If any models are different (different weapons, equipment, stats etc) these wounds are saved seperately.

All out assaults
In 5th edition, once all of the assaulting unit has engaged their target unit, the members of the target unit that are not engaged must move up to 6' to engage as many of the Assaulting unit as possible.

Consolidation
In 5th edition, units that win a fight and consolidate can only move to within 1" of an enemy model. this means that there'll be no more line-rolling from small combat units or powerfull characters.

Blast weapons and template weapons.
The main change for ordnance, blast and template weapons is that there are nor more partials. If you model is touched by the template it is hit.

In 5th edition, firing a blast weapon means that you place the template hole over a target model and roll a scatter die and 2D6. If you roll a hit the shot is on target. If you roll an arrow, the blast moves in the direction a total of the 2D6 less the BS of the model firing. This means against large units (like ork mobz you have a very good chance of always hitting at least one model.

Toliau jau aisku kad infiltrate ir deep strike rule pasikeis.
Edited uruk-hai 2008-06-12 06:36
Necrontyr posted 2008-06-12 05:37
Nieko nežinau, bet kuo toliau tuo man labiau patinka 5th edition, laukiu nesulaukiu. Mano nuomone, tai bus geriausia iš trijų paskutinių edicijų. SUPER!
Drakar posted 2008-06-12 06:11
tai runingas up to D6 ar up to 6'
nors kas as apgaudineju up to 6' per gerai butu
"To the darkness I bring fire. To the ignorant I bring faith. Those who welcome these gifts may live, but I will visit naught but death and eternal damnation on those who refuse them."
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Necrontyr posted 2008-06-12 06:35
Drakar parašė:
tai runingas up to D6 ar up to 6'
nors kas as apgaudineju up to 6' per gerai butu


Čia reikia suprasti taip: fleet of foot free for all.
vytzka posted 2008-06-12 06:40
Fleet of foot be assaulto.
Anima Tactics: Church, Azur Alliance
Warmachine: Mercenaries
Flames of War: USSR, 大日本帝国
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uruk-hai posted 2008-06-12 06:44

Čia reikia suprasti taip: fleet of foot free for all.


Running up to D6'
Skirtumas tarp fleet and running yra kad po running to negali atakuoti.
Po Fleet of foot tu vis tiek turi teise attakuoti.

Dar daugiau naujiena:
- A broodlord and genestealer retinue can enter on your opponents flanks and assault in the turn they neter play.

Now that glancing hits can no longer kill it, the Monolith is ever harder to distroy.

With the new more forgiving deep strike rules, you are much less likely to lose expensive uniths to an unfortunate roll of the scatter die.

Units assaulting vehicles always strike the rear armor.
vytzka posted 2008-06-12 06:53
uruk-hai parašė:
Dar daugiau naujiena:
- A broodlord and genestealer retinue can enter on your opponents flanks and assault in the turn they neter play.

Cia kiek zinau infiltrate viskas turetu taip veikti.
Anima Tactics: Church, Azur Alliance
Warmachine: Mercenaries
Flames of War: USSR, 大日本帝国
Mano moderatoriaus balsas yra ryskiai melynas
magyar posted 2008-06-12 07:46
Matau nemazai streamline'o. Bet sita taisykle tai EVIL:
All out assaults
In 5th edition, once all of the assaulting unit has engaged their target unit, the members of the target unit that are not engaged must move up to 6' to engage as many of the Assaulting unit as possible.

Juk tai reiskia kad mano uzpulta chebra, kuri nenori mirti HtH, vis tiek tures prieiti arciau kad mirtu? Ar tai optional taisykle?


Batma posted 2008-06-12 08:05
Kad man atrodo cia atakuojanciam blogiau ir tu pats noresi savo laisvus modelius pastumti ir ivesti i close combat
vytzka posted 2008-06-12 08:57
magyar parašė:
Juk tai reiskia kad mano uzpulta chebra, kuri nenori mirti HtH, vis tiek tures prieiti arciau kad mirtu? Ar tai optional taisykle?

Ne, ne optional, bet besiginanciajam beveik visada apsimoka (4ed yra Universal Special Rule "Counter Attack" ir kai kas uz ja moka pointus net).

Jeigu tave atakuoja greitesnis (tarkime su fleet) unitas su didele iniciatyva, jam daznai apsimoka atakuoti taip kad tavo modeliu skaicius kurie dalyvauja combate butu kuo mazesnis - tarkim Harlequinai, Banshees arba Wyches - T3, armoras lievas, bet fleet ir milijonas ataku. Isvalai savo killzone (visus priesininkus per 2"), negauni visai ataku atgal (o jeigu ir gausi kelias tai jau taip puoli kad special weaponai ir characteriai butu kitam unito gale negu tu), automatiskai laimi combata (o jeigu Hit'n'Run turi tai kitu raundu pasiplauni is kovos ir veliau assaultini kazka kita arba ta pati antra karta).

Aisku, jeigu tavo guardsmenu squada uzpuola tai tau jokio tolko, bet jiems ar taip ar taip galas. O su dauguma kitu tau dabar kur kas didesni sansai duoti atgal (ypac jeigu didelis squadas ir yra serzantas su power weaponu/fistu ir/arba koks independant characteris).
Anima Tactics: Church, Azur Alliance
Warmachine: Mercenaries
Flames of War: USSR, 大日本帝国
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magyar posted 2008-06-12 09:11
Hm... Na daug maz supratau. Bet vienas dalykas... Jeigu iniciatyva pralaimeta, tai mano isivaizdavimu kuo daugiau modeliu privesiu, tuo daugiau ju ir miru padaugeja.

Bet jo, tokiems IG bus ne kas.

O kitas dalykas, visiskai nelieka jokios disengagemento galimybes, kaip suprantu.


vytzka posted 2008-06-12 09:27
magyar parašė:
Hm... Na daug maz supratau. Bet vienas dalykas... Jeigu iniciatyva pralaimeta, tai mano isivaizdavimu kuo daugiau modeliu privesiu, tuo daugiau ju ir miru padaugeja.

Jeigu tave uzpuola unitas kuris gali isskersti daug daugiau modeliu negu normaliai yra killzone, tau jau yra ne pyragai ar pagal sitas taisykles ar pagal anas (net jeigu nepabegsi ar nebusi nusweepintas vis tiek teks susikonsoliduoti i combata po assault fazes ir kitu turnu to paties likimo jau tikrai sulauksi). Sitaip tu vis tiek islosi nes bent kazkiek galesi padaryti priesininkams zalos.

By the way, jeigu jau gali rinktis ar pralaimeti combata galutinai per priesininko (pirmaja) assault faze ar per savo (antraja), visados reiktu rinktis pirma varianta. 5ed nebegalima susikonsoliduoti i naujus squadus laimejus CC - reiskia priesininko unitas uzpuola tavo squada ir papjauna ar pavercia pabegti o paskui jau niekur nedings. Teks isstoveti visa tavo shooting faze (ir assaultus jeigu tokiu bus).

O kitas dalykas, visiskai nelieka jokios disengagemento galimybes, kaip suprantu.

Tokio dalyko kaip savanoriskas disengagementas 40k siais laikais nera, isskyrus unitus kurie turi Hit And Run USR ir kai kuriuos characterius kurie turi teise rinktis ar jie nori ismesti ar pramesti morales testus (sklando gandai kad visi nauji Space Marines turetu tureti kazka panasaus).
Edited vytzka 2008-06-12 09:32
Anima Tactics: Church, Azur Alliance
Warmachine: Mercenaries
Flames of War: USSR, 大日本帝国
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magyar posted 2008-06-12 09:30
Zinau, kad savanorisko disengagemento nebuvo, bet jeigu HtH mirdavo visi, kurie budavo base 2 base kontakte ir islaikydavai morales testa, tai kaip suprantu, budavai laisvas. Ar ne?


vytzka posted 2008-06-12 09:32
magyar parašė:
Zinau, kad savanorisko disengagemento nebuvo, bet jeigu HtH mirdavo visi, kurie budavo base 2 base kontakte ir islaikydavai morales testa, tai kaip suprantu, budavai laisvas. Ar ne?


Nea, consolidate i CC. Jeigu nepasieki konsoliduotis (tu per 6" ir priesininkas per 6" ) tada laisvas, bet cia LABAI retas atvejis
Edited vytzka 2008-06-12 09:33
Anima Tactics: Church, Azur Alliance
Warmachine: Mercenaries
Flames of War: USSR, 大日本帝国
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magyar posted 2008-06-12 09:34
Mat kaip. Na tada dabar is tiesu geriau.


Darius posted 2008-06-12 12:00
hmh yra ir pliusu ir minusu su tuo true line of sight
pvz dabar dauguma zmoniu modeliuos savo figureles atsitupuses ir uzsislepuses,o ka daryt tiem kurie modeliuoja figureles atsistojusias ant plytu kruvos ir uspidingu pagrindu?na bent jau partially hidden models gauna kover saveus.
vytzka posted 2008-06-12 12:12
Darius parašė:
hmh yra ir pliusu ir minusu su tuo true line of sight
pvz dabar dauguma zmoniu modeliuos savo figureles atsitupuses ir uzsislepuses

Rule -1: don't play with douchebags.

O del plytu kruvos tai nu ka padarysi. Jeigu independant character (kuriems dazniausiai toks menas kliuva) tai vis tiek jo nenusaus taip lengvai jeigu vienas nesitusins po lauka. O jeigu i tave kazkas turi LOS tai atsimink kad tu irgi turi.
Anima Tactics: Church, Azur Alliance
Warmachine: Mercenaries
Flames of War: USSR, 大日本帝国
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Murgatangutz posted 2008-06-12 15:13
Hmm orkai turi waaagh special rule nu t.y fleeta tai gali ir paprastai fleetint ir dar užwaaaghint?

Darkwind posted 2008-06-12 15:43
Mano poziuriu Fleet for everyone gimpina visas rases kurios buvo basintos ant fleet, kadangi jos praranda mobiluma(na jos pacios nepraranda - bet visos kitos gauna, o tai reishkia kad vbisos kitos rases paveja jas mobilumu). Free countercharge, kuris be viso kito yra privalomas taip pat mazai kuo padeda SHOOTY unitams. bendroj sumoj atrodo kad WH 40000 pasaulis pamazu degraduoja ish hightecho i elementarias pjautynes virtuviniais peiliais........ mmdas labai ne kokia ateitis jei konflitais sprendziami dauzant makaules kumsciais vietoj to, kad naudotis visa aibe techniniu naujoviu. Kai skaiciau apie "counter maneuver against charge" tikrai nemaniau kad taip ziauriai sudirbs shooty unitus. Kodel jie turetu noreti COUNTERCHARGINTI vietoj to kad supumpuotu daugiau kulku i atbegancia pusprociu minia? (kaip kitaip pavadinti gauja begancia tiesiai ant shautuvu.....)

na bet kokiu atveju keletas daugiau taisykliu pakeitimu:

*Damage table is
1. Shaken
2. Stunned
3. Weapon destroyed
4 Vehicle immobilized
5 Wrecked
6 Vehicle explodes d6 inches, Strength 3 ap- hit.
(Glancing is -2, Ap1 is +1. AP- is -1)

*Skimmer rules: Fast skimmers may move 6 inches and fire all weapons, or 12 inches and fire 1 main and all defensive weapon. Skimmers may not move and fire all weapons, or move up to 6 and fire one main and all defensive weapons.

*Fast Skimmers may move flat out i.e. 12-24, fast vehicles may move flat out 12-18, and gain a 4+ obscured cover save. There is no save for a skimmer moving less than 121 These are cover saves, so cannot be gained against template weapons, crack shot, marker lights reducing it. Etc. Works like a normal cover save. Can by fortuned.

*Smoke launchers give you a 4+ cover save for next enemy shooting phase.

*Ramming is exactly as it was in the PDF, i.e. for every 3 inches moved its +1 strength, for every armor point above 10 its +1. The book has the example of a land raider ramming an ork truck in the side. The land raider has moved 12 so inflicts strength 8 hit on the trukk. The truck only inflicts a strength 4 hit since its only armor 10, so the land raider is in no danger. Interestingly strength isn't capped here.

*Tanks are relentless in the fact that they can move 6 and still fire a rapid fire weapon up to its maximum range, or fire heavy weapons, but they are still limited by the limits on vehicles moving. For example a land raider can move up to 6 and still fire one of its weapons, i.e. lascannon, but a crusader can move and fire both hurricane bolters, As they are defensive, the pintle mounted storm bolter, again defensive, but only fire one out of the assault cannon or multimelta.

*Vehicle Squadrons - immobilized result = vehicle destroyed.

*Transports can transport any unit, not just the unit they were bought for. You can't hold a unit in reserves in the tank though unless it's a dedicated transport.

*Walkers fire 2 weapons

*Defensive weapons are S4.


Just in case there was still any doubt about the S of defensive weapons.

I'll also throw in the fact that sniper rifles now hit on normal BS of the firer.

* a fast transport cannot move "flat out" on the same turn that it embarks a squad. (Very interesting---makes late-game objective grabbing tougher.)

* "Seize the Initiative" the player who goes second can attempt to go first by rolling a "6" on a d6. (Very tricksy - I like)

Things that I have noted from a few other glances :

Wrecked vehicles whilst still providing cover are both difficult and dangerous terrain now.
Darkwind posted 2008-06-12 15:46
Tau got a real boost in the new rules. Jetpacks now allow heavy weapons to move and fire (Sniper Drones and Network Markerlights anyone?)

Frag grenades are actually cool now, especially wit the right rules in place.

Victory points is, in essence, done away with in favor of objectives, though of course, anyone is free to play any way they want in my opinion.

TROOP CHOICES very SPECIFICALLY are the only units that can TAKE an objective and you must be within 3" to claim one.

At the end of turn 5, you start rolling to see if the game ends. No more 6 turn "standard" games.

Reserve Special ruls is in effect in all standard missions now. Very cool.

Rules create some interesting problems for line of sight. The Dreadnaughts werethe example that captured our attention for some time.

Deepstriking is very ork-goofy. If even one model lands in impassible terrain/enemies, etc, there is a table to see what happens. You will eaither lose the entire unit OR it will go back in reserve OR the opponent can now CHOOSE where to place you.

Pistols are now just assault 1 basically.

Powerfists, Thunderhammers and the like do not gain an extra attack for having a pistol etc... They must have a second like weapon in order to gain the bonus attack.

Force Weapons got GIMPED. It now does Instant Death. There wont be many of those around I imagine after this.

Vehicles get a cover SAVE of 4+ when they are obscured. If its IN DOUBT between the players, they get the save at 5+

Vehicles got slowed WAY down and Defensive weapons are now defined as str 4. Lame. Between the two changes its going to make for a lot of dead tanks.

Rending is changed. Now you have to roll a 6 to WOUND in order to cause Rending. On vehicles you add an extra d3 to it. Interestingly all assaults on vehicles are considered to be against the back armor, not the side you assaulted. Also interesting is that Dreadnaughts still fight at front armor value in melee, BUT if immobilized we see no rule that you auto hit them anywhere, so immobilizing does not appear ot be nough to give you the win.

Terrain is poorly defined and the "levels" concept seems to have been nuked in favor of literal line of sight. Area terrain does not work the same.

Like Fantasy, they changed to a 2" instead of 6" sight distance through area terrain, so Kroot are going to reign supreme in the woods.

Based on some of the rules we saw, Dark Eldar are going to be really fast and mean.

Blast templates are done one at a time in barrages instead of "flipping" FROM THE FIRST ONE.

RAMMING tanks has been instituted and you can really demolish enemy tanks this way. The rules are fairly brutal and you should have good cause to fear a Land Raider.

Every wound you lost by reduces your leadership for the break test in melee, ala Fantasy. So lose by 6, -6 to your lreadership check. On units that are fearless, you take that many wounds instead (normal saves apply). Sound familiar, Vampire players?

Outnumbering has been eliminated as a penalty.

Singular damage table as predicted. Seems a decent enough solution.

Open topped vehicles not "vulnerable to blast templates".

No more of this "nipping" stufff. Now when you charge, the enemy then immediately piles in 6" as well! Therefore while three Sisters of Battle might have been all that would have been engaged in 4th Edition because the charge barely reached them, now almost the entire unit of sisters will attack right along with you.

If I assault a tank on my assault phase and it does not move away in its turn, then in IT'S assault phase, my unit gets to attack it again as if it were locked (even though it can in fact leave anytime). Thus once charged, tanks will wisely want to back away but this will screw them for shooting.

You can fire Ordinance OR all weapons if you dont move. If you move up to 6, it's one weapon and all defensive. if over six, none.

Fast Vehicles go 18. Fast Skimmers (specifically) can go faster.

Skimmers can avoid a Ramming attempt on a 3+.

several independent characters are allowed to glom together to form super units if you desire.

Members of Squadrons that are immobilized are instead counted as destroyed. In addition, Squadrons treat Stunned as shaken instead.

You allocate hits to individual models.

They didn't fix the "free move" from Transports. That was very disappointing.

Bikes turboboosting now get COVER saves rather than invulnerable saves (sorry Grey Knights).

Deepstriking into difficult terrain now requires a Dangerous Terrain Test.


Number 2
Quote
Just took a break from work today to walk down to my hobby store and read through the rulebook.

Some interesting things I noticed:

#1 - True LOS it is. As far as I can tell, that means shooting through the legs of Defilers/Soul Grinders is perfectly legitimate (as long as you don't mind the 4+ cover save).

#2 - Gets Hot requires a roll, even if the target is out of range.

#3 - sniper rifles are S3 + rending against vehicles.

#4 - MCs still fire 2 weapons. Go Go Godzilla.

#5 - SMF only applies to skimmers moving at flat-out speeds. In other words, if the skimmer is going to shoot, it won't get the skimmer cover save. (Fairly significant nerf to all skimmers, but particularly to Tri-falcon eldar, who will now have to choose whether its more important to shoot or to transport the choppy bits inside.

#6 - vehicle squadrons ignore "can't move or shoot" results. (Light vehicle squadrons +1, especially considering the new vehicle damage tables. )

#7 - assault attacks against a vehicle squadron are now against the squadron instead of against individual vehicles. (Long overdue.)

#8 - a fast transport cannot move "flat out" on the same turn that it embarks a squad. (Very interesting---makes late-game objective grabbing tougher.)

#9 - Walkers can run. (Because somebody asked)

#10 - Troops with counter-attack get the counterattack move, but on a leadership test they count as charging. (Are there any armies with units that still use the counter-attack rule?)

#11 - Any non-vehicle/non-swarm troop units count as scoring. (Go Ravening/Guardian Jetbikes!)

#12 - Armies totally wiped out (no units on the table) automatically lose the battle. (Looks like that's going to the Guard strategy in a KP mission)

#13 - Kill points have been modified - each unit, regardless of Org slot, counts as 1 KP for the KP mission. (Still screws Guard, but everyone else comes out okay)

#14 - "Seize the Initiative" the player who goes second can attempt to go first by rolling a "6" on a d6. (Very tricksy - I like)

#15 - Deep striking units with "fleet" can assault on the turn they arrive. (Chaos Daemons are now completely viable, and Tyranid Raveners just got a MAJOR boost)
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